Atai: Following The Path That Spravato Laid And Moving Beyond It

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Pursuing social anxiety disorder with MDMA. Jason Najum talks to Srinivas Rao, CEO of Atai Life Sciences (NASDAQ:ATAI), a biotech company focused on mental health and psychedelic compounds (1:30). Standing on the shoulders of Johnson & Johnson’s Spravato (4:00). Upcoming milestones and clinical trials (13:15). Psychedelic industry sentiment; RFK Jr influence (30:40).

Transcript

Jason Najum: Welcome to the Seeking Alpha podcast. I’m Jason Najum, Seeking Alpha contributor and journalist in the psychedelic medicine space.

Today, we’re speaking with Srini Rao, CEO of Atai Life Sciences (ATAI). Welcome to the podcast.

Srinivas Rao: Nice to see nice to speak with you again, Jason. Thank you very much for having me.

JN: My pleasure. I’m excited to introduce our audience or give investors a deeper look at Atai and its programs. So why don’t we start with a brief introduction to Atai and let the audience know what we’re dealing with.

SR: Big picture, Atai is a company that was founded in 2018 with a focus on mental health. We originally had a model that was more complicated with a hub and spoke type arrangement. We had a number of different entities within the company some of which were partially owned, some of which were wholly owned.

We’ve simplified that tremendously over the intervening years. We have a core pipeline now that’s focused on psychedelic compounds.

So we have two that are completely homegrown internally. One is a DMT formulation. Another one is an oral formulation of r MDMA, one of the enantiomers of MDMA. We have a partnered program with a strategic investment in a company called Beckley, with a five methoxy DMT asset.

And then we also have a strategic investment in another company that’s outside of the psychedelic space that’s called Recognify. And that particular asset is being investigated now in cognitive impairment associated with schizophrenia.

So that’s kind of the lay of the land. Everything that I mentioned at this point is in phase two. We’ve got a couple of readouts this year, in the middle of this year, and then two more readouts at the beginning of next year.

So a very active year for the company.

JN: So maybe a bit of a conceptually, how do you see Atai? Is it a biotech company, psychedelic and medicine development? How would you describe Atai and and its mission?

SR: Again, mission is really around mental health disorders with large unmet medical needs. And certainly, treatment resistant depression remains one of those areas, and we do have two assets that are focused on that.

That’s the DMTS, which is the internal one, VLS-01, and then the partnered asset with Beckley, that’s BPL-003. So these are both short duration psychedelic therapies.

And, some of the folks listening to this may be familiar with Compass Pathways (CMPS). We still have a stake in that company, but, they’re developing psilocybin.

Psilocybin is a four to six hour psychedelic experience. You come in the morning, you take it in the doctor’s office, you’re monitored during the day, and then you get discharged towards the end of that day.

We’re focused on things that are two hours or less, and that’s really what we wanted BPL-003. That’s the the profile that they match. We picked that number very specifically, and that is because of a previous approval by Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) called SPRAVATO.

So SPRAVATO is indicated for treatment resistant depression. It is esketamine. It’s a single enantiomer of ketamine. It’s an intranasally administered compound. It was approved in 2019 for treatment resistant depression.

Had a bit of a slow start and part of that was because it launched into COVID, which was just a few months after approval, but has really been something that has been growing quite rapidly, due to the heavy lifting by J&J.

So the paradigm here is that patients with TRD, they go into the doctor’s office. They are administered to the compound. They wait for two hours. They’re monitored for two hours in the doctor’s office. And then at the two hour point, the doctor can make a decision depending on how the patient’s doing to discharge them home.

So that’s the paradigm that we wanna fit into. Now the challenge with Spravato is that you have to do this a lot. There’s an induction and maintenance kind of paradigm here. Induction constitutes up to 12 administrations over eight weeks.

So this is a big deal. You’re going in twice a week for four weeks. So that means you have to get a ride to the doctor’s office. You gotta get checked in. You gotta get dosed. You’ve gotta get monitored. Then you gotta check out, and then you’ve gotta get a ride home. This is many hours in totality. Each individual visit is probably not the end of the world, but when you have to do that eight times in four weeks or 12 times in eight weeks, that’s just a lot of visits.

With the psychedelics, there’s a promise of much less frequent dosing to induce remission. That’s what we’re really hoping for with these compounds. And, of course, there’s evidence to that, in the context of psilocybin as well as with DMT as an example.

We anticipate someone getting dosed, not requiring a redose for maybe another four weeks, if at all. You might be able to induce remission, which is single dose. We are also looking at two doses over four weeks, with VLS-01 just to see if that can actually improve it to have an additive effect.

So that’s the paradigm we’re seeing that we’re targeting. Just building on everything that J&J has established with Spravato, but making it much more convenient for the patient, much more convenient for the provider.

JN: Maybe just a a little more context for the audience. SPRAVATO has been increasing in sales for the last several quarters, and I believe last year it was the fastest growing product in Janssen’s portfolio. Did we hit a billion in sales last year?

SR: We did. It was a billion dollars last year. I think it was about $9.30, 9.40 million in the United States, and that was based on – to the best of our knowledge – approximately fifty thousand patients.

So if you think about that for a second, treatment resistant depression in the United States is about three million patients. In terms of prevalence during the course of the year because, obviously, people have it and then they remit, hopefully, and then it can happen again. So the yearly prevalence is around three million, the yearly incidence is about three million people.

So this is a tiny, tiny fraction. It’s under 2% or less of the total market is is giving you a billion dollars.

JN: It’s quite remarkable, actually. And the industry is taking that as a as a great sign of possible futures. So I guess we’re following the path that Spravato has laid for us, proof of concept, working with payers, working with therapists. Working with providers and clinics, showing that it’s a viable economic model.

And now Atai wants to come in, learn from what’s Spravato’s done, tweak it, and potentially offer some some better options. Is that what we’re looking at?

SR: Yeah. I think that’s certainly one way to to think about it. We’ve always had the end in mind at Atai. So what is going to work? How can you exploit an existing infrastructure? That’s really been our focus.

And, again, Spravato is a very good place to start. I think we can expand from there, but it’s commercially attractable for a small company.

There’s about 4,500 clinics in the US that are that are, I guess, registered through the REMS at this point that are active through the REMS. There’s a smaller percentage of those that account for the bulk of the patients as is always the case.

But, even at twice that, the 9,000 clinics, that is something that a small company salesforce could actually reach if one chose to do so. So, again, there’s a lot of nice features to this that make it very compelling for a small company like ourselves.

JN: This would be a way to differentiate Atai from other major players in in the psychedelic space with the shorter duration and, better scalability, I’m guessing, with that?

SR: Absolutely. Between VLS-01 and BPL-003, we are the leaders in the space of short acting psychedelic compounds.

All the other ones that are being developed are much longer stays in the doctor’s office. For example well, I mentioned COMPASS. Psilocybin is usually a four to six hour experience. The total duration of psychedelic experience is somewhere four to six hours. You’re likely gonna be in the doctor’s office the entirety of the day.

Certainly, you’re gonna plan for that. LSD is also being developed. That’s also in phase three. That can be much longer. That can be eight, ten, twelve hours in duration. It’s just a much longer half life compound. So, again, very potentially very different paradigm.

There’s another company also developing five methoxy DMT, but it’s in a very different route of administration.

So both of our products, I’ll talk about a little bit more, are transmucosal. Our five methoxy DMT as a, BPL-003 is intranasal transmucosal. So it’s a sprayer that goes into the nose.

It deposits the compound on the intranasal surface and of course gets absorbed that way. One of the competing programs is an inhaled product. So it’s actually pulmonary administration, pulmonary delivery.

But in that particular case, it’s a individual dosing regimen. So you are dosed at a low dose. You see how the patient does. It’s short duration. It’s on the order of thirty minutes.

If the patient had a a full psychedelic experience, then that’s fine. Otherwise, they’re redosed, and this process is repeated. And if they didn’t get a full psychedelics experience, they’re redosed again.

And the redosing can’t occur more frequently from our understanding than on the hour. So you have to wait in at least one hour from the previous administration.

So at the very minimum, you’re planning for three hours realistically. Not that these things never go completely on clockwork. Right? So you’re talking about probably closer to four hours, and you certainly have to schedule for that.

You can’t assume that a person’s only gonna require one dose or two doses. You have to plan for the totality. And, of course, this is much more intensive, because you have to dose, monitor, make a decision, redose, monitor, etc.

We wanted something, and we’re really targeting things that are just like Spravato. You go in, you get those single administration, you monitor, and then you discharge.

JN: The ease of access, the scalability, the short duration, all of that, we think will really be a differentiator in the end when we we wanna get to full commercialization. Will this really make it more attractive? Assuming efficacy is there. We really think this is gonna be a big selling point going forward when the market really starts to spread itself out?

SR: Yeah. Certainly, the payer discussions, etc that we’ve had to date support that notion. Provider discussions we’ve had to date support that notion.

I mean, having a patient that is there the entire day, it obviously reduces bandwidth, but it also just requires a lot more monitoring. So this is a single, with a two hour window, it’s just different. The patient doesn’t need that much monitoring. All of us are focused on de minimis monitoring, just making sure the patient is safe.

It’s kinda like with esketamine or with ketamine. You just wanna make sure the patient is safe. There’s no therapy elements or anything like that. A single patient, it’s short. There’s sort of de minimis monitoring, and then they get discharged. You get to clear the room. You get to start all over again. It’s just a simplified paradigm compared to having a patient stay there the entire day.

Someone staying there the entire day, if nothing else they might get hungry. They have to go to the bathroom, etc. Things happen over the course of six to eight hours versus… everybody’s familiar with what happens with Spravato. All these docs already know it.

JN: Yeah. Exactly. And it may improve just distribution. I mean, you may run into clinics that just don’t wanna commit to an eight hour patient sitting.

SR: That’s right. I think that’s certainly what we have seen, and people are excited when they hear about something that’s short and similar to what they’ve already done. There’s no building up of any new infrastructure per se.

JN: That will definitely help the ease of rollout.

Let’s dive into a little bit more specifics. Let’s work chronologically on your upcoming milestones and maybe give a little bit more context as to the clinical trials and the products themselves. So maybe a quick summary of your upcoming milestones.

SR: Absolutely. So there’s two milestones in the middle of this year. The first one is in fact, BPL-003. Again, intranasal five methoxy DMT. So that is in the midst of a phase 2b trial currently. It’s about 185 patients, give or take, that’ll be randomized.

And three arms, so we’re doing a sub perceptual dose of zero point three milligrams, an eight milligram dose and a twelve milligram dose. Both of the latter are in from phase 1, have been associated with a very robust psychedelic effect. Primary endpoint is the madras, which is a standard measure for depression. It’s an approvable endpoint. Primary endpoint’s at four weeks.

So we’re looking for durability. Single administration, looking for efficacy that persists up to four weeks. There’s a blinded efficacy that’s monitored for an additional four weeks, so total of eight weeks.

And then there’s an open label, which is a subsequent trial if the patient chooses to enroll in that, then they can go and get one more dose in an open label fashion and another end monitoring for an additional eight weeks.

The top line will be, again, middle of this year. It’ll be focused on that first trial, so the four week primary and the eight week follow-up period.

JN: And this 2b would be the most advanced trial in your pipeline?

SR: Actually, the other trial that is the result is gonna be right on top of this one is the cognitive impairments, associated with schizophrenia asset.

So this is more of a traditional compound. Obviously, not psychedelic. You wouldn’t be giving psychedelics to a patient that’s suffering from schizophrenia.

So this is a daily drug. It’s an interesting compound as just a quick detour from what we’ve been talking about. Phenotypically characterized agent came from Allergan before they were acquired by AbbVie (ABBV).

Phenotypically characterized means that it was put in animal models. Then what was found is that at low doses, the compound is procognitive, and at higher doses that effect goes away and it becomes more analgesic.

And this drug was pursued in a number of different analgesic trials, but there was always some focus and some interest in looking at the procognitive effects of the compound.

So there were two phase 1 trials that showed procognitive effects. And there’s a larger phase 2 trial in diabetic, peripheral neuropathic pain focused primarily on pain, but they did look at cognitive endpoints in that as well.

All of these trials showed some benefits, particularly on verbal memory and attentional measures. So this to us is very interesting. Cognitive impairment and schizophrenia is a major driver of morbidity in health care utilization and in this patient population.

Essentially, every patient with schizophrenia has cognitive impairments. So it’s about eighty percent, but it’s impactful in eighty percent.

So if your if your IQ is supposed to be 150, so to speak, supposed to be based on your parents and your siblings, you typically have a two sigma deviation from that, a two sigma reduction that would take you to 130 range, you’re doing fine.

If you are supposed to have an average IQ of 100, then you’re gonna be impaired down to about 80, which is quite impactful. Right? So that’s the way to think about it. Again, this is a major driver of morbidity and utilization. So this is why many of these folks ends up in boarding care facilities where they’re not gainfully employed. Tthey’re in these facilities and basically being managed by other people.

So that’s why there’s a great deal of interest in this space. It’s a challenging indication. It’s a challenging space, but could have a huge impact on patients’ lives as well as societal cost.

JN: Are there any current medications that are effective?

SR: No, nothing’s been approved for it. It’s been recognized. I mean, when you think about schizophrenia, most people just think about the voices in the head, etc. Those are the positive symptoms. And for the most part, you can get pretty good control over those symptoms with normal antipsychotics, atypical antipsychotics.

You can at least get to the point where the patient has insight that whatever they’re hearing, whatever they think they’re hearing is really their own internal dialogue and it’s not an external thing. And they can kinda work with that.

But, again, nothing really nothing really touches the cognitive impairments and indeed another symptom domain called the negative symptoms. So that’s what we are focused on. There’s been a lot of interest.

There’s interest at the FDA as well, but it’s a challenging one. Right? It’s a very challenging indication, but has the potential to just really revolutionize the space if we are successful with that trial.

JN: Going after important conditions, treatment resistant depression. It seems you have mentioned a few shots on goal with treatment resistant depression, through your portfolio.

SR: Correct. So just wrapping up with our RL-007 234 patient trial that’ll be reading out in the middle of this year right on top of the BPL study.

The second treatment resistant depression asset that we have is DMT. This is our so called VLS-01. It’s an oral thin film formulation of DMT. Essentially, it’s like a Listerine strip. It’s something you take and put it on the inside of the cheek.

We designed this to be incredibly well tolerated by patients as well as something that’s provider friendly as well. There’s a subset of individuals that don’t like intranasal. So Spravato is intranasal. BPL-003 is intranasal. Pretty well tolerated by a lot of people, but other folks just really don’t like things being sprayed up in their nose.

Oral thin films, Listerine strip type formulations are very well tolerated. Everybody seems to be pretty comfortable with that.

So that’s where we’re headed with that. Had some very good results. It’s a complex formulation. They’re more difficult to manufacture. Well, they’re more difficult to design and engineer than intranasal typically. But we got very good results from phase 1, incredible safety tolerability.

Tolerability in particular, and, there’s usually there’s a certain incidence of nausea and vomiting that is common with psychedelics compounds.

We had de minimis nausea at the dose that we’re gonna go move forward with into phase two. No vomiting, actually. So very good tolerability. So, yeah, we just initiated a trial there, treatment resistant depression. It’s all in the United States. So that trial will be reading out in the first quarter of next year.

JN: And that’ll be phase?

SR: Phase 2b.

JN: 2b as well?

SR: Yeah.

JN: Just for context on the advancements here, that’s an oral strip of DMT, one of the world’s most powerful psychedelics. So the technology here and the innovation is impressive.

We take it for granted. An oral thin strip of DMT, but there’s some really impressive advancements going on here. And if the efficacy continues, it’s very interesting stuff.

SR: That’s a really interesting point. So one of the reasons that we went after DMT was actually that there was a double blind placebo controlled trial of Ayahuasca in treatment resistant depression.

So that was derisking. Ayahuasca, it is an oral formulation, so to speak. It’s a couple of different plants, it’s a brew made from a couple of different plants. One of which is psychosia veridis. That’s what actually provides DMT. But then there’s other plant materials that are put in there, banisteria capii, for example, that actually have a monoamine oxidase inhibitor.

So the combination of the two renders the DMT poorly bioavailable, but of course, it’s not a great formulation as a brew.

JN: The adverse effects would be quite high on those.

SR: Yeah. And, you know, monamine oxidase inhibitors can be problematic. But, nonetheless, it was a good proof of concept.

Ayahuasca has a very low concentration over an extended period of time. It’s almost psilocybin like in its total duration of six hours, eight hours sometimes.

Then there was a subsequent IV DMT study, which had a very rapid pharmacokinetic profile.

So in quickly and then out quickly. That was also efficacious. It was also found to be efficacious in TRD at two weeks. So we actually have a profile or a pharmacokinetic profile that splits the difference between those two.

These two datasets give us a lot of comfort for our own trial. So we’re very sanguine on those results and we’re really looking forward to that.

JN: Yep. I’m so am I. It’s it’s gonna be a a busy year for Atai. You’ll be in the news. And, other milestones after that?

SR: Yeah. We have one more, and that is, r MDMA, which is, MDMA, I think people are familiar with.

It’s obviously been in the news as a potential drug. I mean, it’s used in different context sbecause it’s an pathogen or an antaxogen. It basically increases kind of social, well, affiliated behaviors, and I’ll leave it at that.

JN: The love drug.

SR: Yeah. Exactly.

It has been looked at in PTSD. There was a company called Lykos that recently had an well, recently being in the fall of last year, had an adcom around it and then had a PDUFA date for that, based on two small phase three trials.

Long and short of it is that there were a lot of methodological limitations, a lot of trial limitations with that program. Ultimately, that, application was rejected. They’re currently kind of working on this a little bit further, potentially looking at another study to, to go back to the FDA with.

We were interested in our MDMA, the single enantiomer. It turns out the two enantiomers of MDMA are very different pharmacologically. The s enantiomer, is much more of a stimulant. It’s got norepinephrine dopaminergic effects.

And the r enantiomer is where the serotonergic activity is, and that’s where some of the beneficial and pathogenic and tachygenic effects are thought to lie.

So initially, we went into it thinking, okay, well, this could be a better tolerated version of MDMA because MDMA, it has some safety concerns. Right? Because of the stimulant type things, it can cause tachycardia. It can cause almost a fever like syndrome because you get all this muscle clenching and everything, so your body temperature goes up, teeth clenching. There’s a lot of things that can be problematic.

But when we did a phase one, we actually found a very different profile. It was not really, it had some empathic kind of properties, but it also had some psychedelic like properties, but it was something in between and very unique.

Once we found those, we took some time to think this through. It’s like, okay. Well, this is unexpected. We love unexpected results. I mean, that’s where innovation really happens. Right? So we spent some time thinking about the results and lining that up with potential indications.

We’re now pursuing social anxiety disorder. There’s a lot of companies that are looking at different forms of depression and generalized anxiety disorders as an example.

But social anxiety disorder is something that’s really been kinda sidelined in many ways. Social anxiety disorder, people talked about it. There were some approvals back in the day, like, 2003 I think was the last approval. There are two SSRIs and one SNRI been approved for it. But last one, I think, again, 2003 or so. But it has risen in prominence because of COVID.

COVID really highlighted social anxiety disorder and persistent social anxiety disorder in kids who were in high school and stuff and kinda missed some socialization because of COVID. So it’s kind of where treatment resistant depression was ten years ago.

So that’s what got us very interested in it. There’s some particular facets of the the data that we saw coming out of the phase one that suggests that it could be really good for the the compound that could be very good for social anxiety disorders.

So, again, that’s what we’re pursuing. So we’re in a phase 2a with that. We initiated a phase 2a trial with that. And then, again, anticipating results in the first quarter of next year. So very excited about that as well.

JN: And as a potential market, it’s very interesting.

SR: Huge. It’s huge. Social anxiety disorder is actually bigger than, certainly bigger than treating resistant depression. At least, it’s on the order of two x larger.

Quite impactful for people. It changes so many aspects of the patient’s life. I mean, there’s a lot of avoidant behaviors in folks that have social anxiety. Right? They don’t go out. I mean, and they avoid all sorts of situations that could be, just going out when you’re in high school or college, going out to a party, but it could be more impactful, like, not going to a grocery store. It can be not wanting to go into work or what have you.

I mean, there’s any number of ways this can manifest that’s associated with a lot of depression. It’s associated with a lot of other mental health conditions. So really, an important area to try and address.

JN: And the FDA is generally supportive of indications that have an unmet need?

SR: Absolutely. And again, it’s important that there’s a regulatory endpoint that’s already been defined. In fact, two.

So for social anxiety on a more chronic basis, there was as I mentioned, three approvals. There’s something called the LSAS, a lead with social anxiety scale that’s an approved endpoint, approved if you will. But, something the FDA is very comfortable with.

And there have been a couple of more recent programs that are focused on as needed therapy. So PRN therapy for social anxiety, anxiety disorder. These would be things you would take before, for example, going out to a party or something to reduce your social anxiety going into that experience.

So there’s a different end point for that. Something called the SUDS, basically, a symptom, severity scale or distress scale. So there’s at least two endpoints.

We’re really focusing on the former on the LSAS.

JN: Well, I coulda used that in high school.

SR: You and me both.

The only other thing I’d mention is that we did recently complete a fundraise, in fact, the last two weeks or so. So obviously, very happy about that.

JN: 63 million?

SR: Yeah. 63 is the top number there, and that takes us into ’27. So you know, obviously, it gives us a little breathing room above and beyond these readouts. So very happy about that.

JN: Yeah, for context to the to the audience, Atai was the first major developer in the psychedelic medicine space, I believe, and always had the reputation as the company with the broadest pipeline and the deepest pockets.

It’s good to see that years later, with the ups and downs and extended downturns in the market, that you’re still keeping it going.

SR: Absolutely. And, again, narrowed our focus down significantly as I mentioned at the outset.

So, organically, we had pretty high bars for what we wanna advance and what assets we wanna advance. We’ve had a number of trials that we’ve conducted over the intervening years.

And, obviously, the things that have been the most successful are the things that are in our pipeline now that that we’re advancing.

JN: And just another note on the finances, I believe one of the original cofounders, Christian Angermayer, just reupped and invested another 20 some odd million into Atai, which is always good to show an extra vote of confidence from insiders and founders. You guys are in it to win it.

SR: Yeah, you bet.

JN: I was gonna ask what differentiates Atai from others in this space, but we did we did cover much of that.

Your pipeline is the widest, covering a range of conditions with a range of compounds. A lot of different shots on net.

The question is why Atai over somebody else? We’ve answered much of that. I don’t know if you have another little bit to add to that.

SR: No. I think I think we have.

The most important thing being that we view the short duration element as really important from a commercialization perspective, and I think it’s the easiest path. Again, just standing on the shoulders of J&J, which is not a bad place, right?

So I think we’re in a pretty good position there, and we have two assets there currently. That are differentiated amongst themselves. I mean, these compounds are different. Mebufotenin or 5 methoxy DMT is pharmacologically different. It’s experientially different than DMT.

And so there may very well be different subsets of patients that would be served by one or the other, kind of like with SSRIs. We don’t know that. That’s something that we can explore. But, again, really being kind of on the forefront of that I think, is very important.

JN: Trading on the Nasdaq? ATAI?

SR: That’s right. Yep.

JN: All that information will be included with the podcast notes. Maybe we’ll just close with a little bit of context on the greater landscape.

I don’t wanna weigh too much into politics, but there was some news in the psychedelics industry that the new American administration would be favorable towards psychedelic medicine developments and the confirmation of RFK junior, head of the HHS, the markets reacted, it seemed like, he’s been pretty vocal, supportive of psychedelics.

So the landscape seems to be increasingly receptive despite what we can maybe consider a setback from Lycos’ nonapproval. Have we gotten past that? Does the does the landscape seem positive now, especially with the new FDA reality?

SR: Yes. I mean, just going back to Lykos, I mean, yes. That was absolutely a setback. There was a lot of people that were really quite convinced that that was gonna get approved. I always had some of my doubts mainly because of the size of the trials.

It was just unusual, and there’s some difference unusual characteristics of that program that gave me some concerns along the way, but, unfortunately, those were born out in the PDUFA decision.

I think the challenge for last year for this space was on the heels of that negative outcome, there were no real readouts.

So we had GH Research that had a readout for their five methoxy DMT asset. First double blind placebo controlled readout for that particular compound. Compass has readouts. Cybin (CYBN) has readouts this year. We, of course, have readouts. So there’s just gonna be a lot more going on.

Going back to RFK for a moment, you’re absolutely right. He’s certainly voiced his support for the space. We’ll just have to see how this all plays out, of course.

There has been a lot of turmoil within some of these agencies over the course of the last couple of weeks. Let’s see how it all shakes out. But, of course, yes, we’re very hopeful, speak for many other people in the the psychedelic space I’m sure. We’re very hopeful and encouraged by some of the positive feedback or positive statements that RFK has made along the way and look forward to seeing how this all plays out.

JN: I appreciate it, and I’d love to have you back, perhaps after some of your readouts have come through, maybe towards the end of the year, we could check back in and see where we’re at.

SR: I’d like that.